Covid/mRNA Vaccine Info General - You Are Not "Vaccine Hesitant" For Using Critical Thinking

Badungus Kabungus

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
They can, hence why mask mandates exist, but unvaxxed an be asymptomatic, too. The people who had the high viral loads had symptoms, as per the study
Normal people have less chances of being asymptomatic though, compared to the vaxxed.

Essentially it boils down to this. Taking the vaxx is selfish. You're increasing your own chances of survival at the cost of everyone else, by serving as a breeding ground for mutations that put everyone else at risk.
 

Fanatical Pragmatist

A garbage human being
kiwifarms.net
Normal people have less chances of being asymptomatic though, compared to the vaxxed.

Essentially it boils down to this. Taking the vaxx is selfish. You're increasing your own chances of survival at the cost of everyone else, by serving as a breeding ground for mutations that put everyone else at risk.
That's not true and even if it were its not a good argument against getting the COVID vaccine.

Holy fuck, am I arguing for the vax...?
 

Hollywood Hulk Hogan

nWo 4 LyFe
True & Honest Fan
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Normal people have less chances of being asymptomatic though, compared to the vaxxed.

Essentially it boils down to this. Taking the vaxx is selfish. You're increasing your own chances of survival at the cost of everyone else, by serving as a breeding ground for mutations that put everyone else at risk.
Not necessarily. Vaxxed people have more of a chance of not getting infected. The study said that those who did have the vax and got covid had the same viral loads as unvaxed.

That's not true and even if it were its not a good argument against getting the COVID vaccine.

Holy fuck, am I arguing for the vax...?
He may just be pretended to be retarded again, but he does it a lot so it's hard to tell when he's serious or just being retarded
 

Badungus Kabungus

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
That's not true and even if it were its not a good argument against getting the COVID vaccine.

Holy fuck, am I arguing for the vax...?
Well, it is somewhat of an over-simplification. The increase in asymptomatic cases depends on the vaxxed having increased face to face interactions and less mask wearing due to the placebo effect from getting their shot and thinking "it's finally over." So not purely from a medical perspective but also from a social one. You know they're out there, high-fiving each other and smelling each other's farts, thinking this is the end of a Marvel movie and they won by taking the vaxx and upvoting each other on Reddit.

Not necessarily. Vaxxed people have more of a chance of not getting infected. The study said that those who did have the vax and got covid had the same viral loads as unvaxed.
Yet those vaxxed who do get infected have more of a chance of not showing any symptoms, compared to normal people getting infected. Then they go out in public and infect others because they're teeming with disease.
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Fanatical Pragmatist

A garbage human being
kiwifarms.net
Well, it is somewhat of an over-simplification. The increase in asymptomatic cases depends on the vaxxed having increased face to face interactions and less mask wearing due to the placebo effect from getting their shot and thinking "it's finally over." So not purely from a medical perspective but also from a social one. You know they're out there, high-fiving each other and smelling each other's farts, thinking this is the end of a Marvel movie and they won by taking the vaxx and upvoting each other on Reddit.


Yet those vaxxed who do get infected have more of a chance of not showing any symptoms, compared to normal people getting infected. Then they go out in public and infect others because they're teeming with disease.
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You're definitely overplaying the effect the effect of masks/social distancing and under-estimating the level of asymptomatic (& extremely mild) unvaccinated cases.
 

Badungus Kabungus

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You're definitely overplaying the effect the effect of masks/social distancing and under-estimating the level of asymptomatic (& extremely mild) unvaccinated cases.
While the level of asymptomatic and mild cases in the unvaccinated is still obviously huge, it seems that over the next few months it may increase amongst the vaxxed more.

I'm thinking in terms of group social dynamics. In a social group of vaxxed people when one gets infected and spreads it to everyone in the group, there's a higher chance of the whole group being asymptomatic, leading to no one getting tested and them spreading the virus undetected for a long time. Whereas in a social group of unvaccinated people who get infected there's a higher chance that at least one member will start showing symptoms, leading to the entire group getting tested and being able to isolate and get treatment in time.

While that doesn't apply to lonely basement dwelling autists like the Hulkster, the rest of us have friends and families.
 

Fanatical Pragmatist

A garbage human being
kiwifarms.net
While the level of asymptomatic and mild cases in the unvaccinated is still obviously huge, it seems that over the next few months it may increase amongst the vaxxed more.

I'm thinking in terms of group social dynamics. In a social group of vaxxed people when one gets infected and spreads it to everyone in the group, there's a higher chance of the whole group being asymptomatic, leading to no one getting tested and them spreading the virus undetected for a long time. Whereas in a social group of unvaccinated people who get infected there's a higher chance that at least one member will start showing symptoms, leading to the entire group getting tested and being able to isolate and get treatment in time.
And...?
The virus still wins in the end?
What's your endgame?
 

Badungus Kabungus

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
And...?
The virus still wins in the end?
What's your endgame?
There's really no end game here, outside of treating it with whatever available, be it HCQ, Ivermectin, or convalescent plasma therapy. Current gen covid vaccines are just mostly ineffective, and occasionally seem to be making things worse. Maybe in 3-5 years big pharma will realize they're running out of customers and come up with something that works, and that actually had proper testing done.
 

Hollywood Hulk Hogan

nWo 4 LyFe
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
While the level of asymptomatic and mild cases in the unvaccinated is still obviously huge, it seems that over the next few months it may increase amongst the vaxxed more.

I'm thinking in terms of group social dynamics. In a social group of vaxxed people when one gets infected and spreads it to everyone in the group, there's a higher chance of the whole group being asymptomatic, leading to no one getting tested and them spreading the virus undetected for a long time. Whereas in a social group of unvaccinated people who get infected there's a higher chance that at least one member will start showing symptoms, leading to the entire group getting tested and being able to isolate and get treatment in time.
The folks who are unvaccinated at this point probably won't socially distance, isolate when they show symptoms, or wear masks, so that's a completely retarded point. Not to mention that unvaccinated people can still be asymptomatic.
While that doesn't apply to lonely basement dwelling autists like the Hulkster, the rest of us have friends and families.
Says the autist who is unhealthily obsessed with Hunter Biden who browses /pol/ for more posts from Q

Current gen covid vaccines are just mostly ineffective, and occasionally seem to be making things worse.
Lol wut? The vaccines are pretty effective overall and how are they making things worse? And I don't mean by your retarded talking point that both me and Fanatical are actually in agreement that it's a stupid and untrue point
 

Badungus Kabungus

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
The folks who are unvaccinated at this point probably won't socially distance, isolate when they show symptoms, or wear masks, so that's a completely retarded point.
That's a mighty big assumption to base your entire argument on. Weren't you just ranting recently about how you're tired of wearing masks?

Also current gen coof vaxx is ineffective because they simply don't prevent the spread of the virus to any significant degree, compared for example to the effectiveness of pretty much any other vaccine. Smallpox vaccine is what, 95-98%? They give one a false sense of security, while increasing the chances that if they do get infected, they won't know about it.
 
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Hollywood Hulk Hogan

nWo 4 LyFe
True & Honest Fan
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That's a mighty big assumption to base your entire argument on. Weren't you just ranting recently about how you're tired of wearing masks?
Masks don't really bother me. I even wore them in the gym just fine. Only downside was that they could make some women look hotter than they really were.

And it's not really a big assumption based on people's behavior over the past 18 months
 

Badungus Kabungus

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Masks don't really bother me. I even wore them in the gym just fine. Only downside was that they could make some women look hotter than they really were.

And it's not really a big assumption based on people's behavior over the past 18 months
You don't have a private gym? I'd rather be lifting rocks in the woods alone than be surrounded by sweaty disgusting gym people.

The next few months will settle this argument on just how effective this current iteration of the vaxx is. Given the latest news about community spread amongst the vaccinated, things don't seem to be in your favor.
 

Hollywood Hulk Hogan

nWo 4 LyFe
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
You don't have a private gym? I'd rather be lifting rocks in the woods alone than be surrounded by sweaty disgusting gym people.
Nah, I like going to the gym. I enjoy being around people and I have a lot of friends there.
The next few months will settle this argument on just how effective this current iteration of the vaxx is. Given the latest news about community spread amongst the vaccinated, things don't seem to be in your favor.
Considering you totally misread the article and missed that it still protects a lot of people who are vaccinated, I am not too worried.
 

Badungus Kabungus

True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Nah, I like going to the gym. I enjoy being around people and I have a lot of friends there.

Considering you totally misread the article and missed that it still protects a lot of people who are vaccinated, I am not too worried.
I'm pressing X to doubt the friends thing. Also the gym thing in general. You sound fat.

Don't project your illiteracy and lack of reasoning abilities onto others. Try reading the articles again, slowly, and actually consider the implications this time.
 

Hollywood Hulk Hogan

nWo 4 LyFe
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
I'm pressing X to doubt the friends thing. Also the gym thing in general. You sound fat.
I'm a semi-regular in the Kiwi exercise, diet and lifting threads. I recommend you start reading it, maybe you could get your fat ass in shape. Q would probably want you to get in shape. It really isn't hard to work out and it's a good stress relief. Plus getting stronger is fun

Don't project your illiteracy and lack of reasoning abilities onto others. Try reading the articles again, slowly, and actually consider the implications this time.
Ironic coming from a spaz who couldn't even read a news article correctly. Or are you just pretending to be retarded again? I am starting to think that's just a cover for you being an actual retard
 

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid

This will all end in tears, I just know it.
True & Honest Fan
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Neither really. It’s an adenovirus vector with a DNA payload. The dna goes into the nucleus and produces the mRNA to make the spike subunit. Adenovirus vectors (I work with them, ironically) are Ok for some stuff, they do have their own issues though. But generally the vector is safeish . The payload however is still part of the spike and it’s the spike that’s causing the pathology . All these vaccines have the same flaws. Firstly they are causing a pulse of the thing that’s doing the harm in the body. Now if that’s contained to your muscle then you’ll likely be fine . BUT if that injection doesn’t stay at the site and that pulse of spike is being produced and exposed to vascular tissue that’s a problem. The other issue is purity of the mRNA product - the breakdown products themselves may be toxic or instable amd producing slightly different forms of that protein.
I’ve seen different reactions in people I know - some have nothing, others feel a bit crappy, one has a severe reaction. I suspect that the QC of vaccine batches will be critical (however as far as I know VAERS doesn’t correlate batch number meaning it’s going to hard to find ‘bad’ lots.) as will storage and if they have leakage at the site
It's nice to have access to someone who knows what they're talking about.
 

Otterly

Primark Primarch
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Lol wut? The vaccines are pretty effective overall and how are they making things worse?
Long, sorry… Well it would help if bodies like the cdc were honest in their data collection, but here’s my take on what is happening:
Governments were sold on the vaccine by being told it would stop the spread. Remember these people are politicians not epidemiologists or similar. They threw a HUGE amount of money at it. They’re all in on vaccines and they want them as well because it links in with the vaccine passport/social control.
Natural immunity gives someone a varying set of antibodies, so they will be able to fight off subsequent versions even if there’s been quite a bit of change. We don’t know how long that lasts but past experience with sars says severe illness will give you long term infection, mild illness long term protection and no illness means you had a degree of immunity anyway (the original sars survivors still have immunity to sars for context here.
The vaccine seems to give an initial strong protection that wanes fast. It also gives a very narrow antibody response so that when the virus changes it’s less effective. The vaccine also seems to have a higher risk than the trials said (quel surprise, they were poorly designed and too short.). Delta seems for infectious, not necessarily more harmful.
So you’ve got a situation where the most beneficial thing to be is previously infected or naturally immune and recovered. The ones who got vaccinated CAN get infected Amd CAN spread. They aren’t dying as much but they can still get sick and die. Those who never got infected or vaccinated will be exposed to the more infectious variant and be ill or not depending . But that pool of people who were vaccinated, are not so sick but are shedding at normal rates are hosts who incubate and create a selection pressure to evade the vaccine.
In a nutshell, the vaccines don’t work very well. They are at best a mild prophylactic and at worst creating conditions that favour vaccine evading mutations. Now the point of a vaccine is to STOP an infection. If it’s only a prophylactic then well we have better prophylactics with lower risk, like ivermectin, and raising peoples vitamin D level.
It’s a huge fuckup. We should be opening back up, letting this go through to create the natural immunity and using the therapies we have (like India did) to stop deaths and illness.
The vaccine is making things worse becasue:
- it’s being used instead of therapies
- it’s the focus of attention rather than therapies
- it’s preventing us getting that natural reaponse
- it’s being used to divide society
- it’s a vehicle for social control.
There is also some new work out that it’s modulating the immune response for other things, in ways we don’t understand.
 

MarvinTheParanoidAndroid

This will all end in tears, I just know it.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Long, sorry… Well it would help if bodies like the cdc were honest in their data collection, but here’s my take on what is happening:
Governments were sold on the vaccine by being told it would stop the spread. Remember these people are politicians not epidemiologists or similar. They threw a HUGE amount of money at it. They’re all in on vaccines and they want them as well because it links in with the vaccine passport/social control.
Natural immunity gives someone a varying set of antibodies, so they will be able to fight off subsequent versions even if there’s been quite a bit of change. We don’t know how long that lasts but past experience with sars says severe illness will give you long term infection, mild illness long term protection and no illness means you had a degree of immunity anyway (the original sars survivors still have immunity to sars for context here.
The vaccine seems to give an initial strong protection that wanes fast. It also gives a very narrow antibody response so that when the virus changes it’s less effective. The vaccine also seems to have a higher risk than the trials said (quel surprise, they were poorly designed and too short.). Delta seems for infectious, not necessarily more harmful.
So you’ve got a situation where the most beneficial thing to be is previously infected or naturally immune and recovered. The ones who got vaccinated CAN get infected Amd CAN spread. They aren’t dying as much but they can still get sick and die. Those who never got infected or vaccinated will be exposed to the more infectious variant and be ill or not depending . But that pool of people who were vaccinated, are not so sick but are shedding at normal rates are hosts who incubate and create a selection pressure to evade the vaccine.
In a nutshell, the vaccines don’t work very well. They are at best a mild prophylactic and at worst creating conditions that favour vaccine evading mutations. Now the point of a vaccine is to STOP an infection. If it’s only a prophylactic then well we have better prophylactics with lower risk, like ivermectin, and raising peoples vitamin D level.
It’s a huge fuckup. We should be opening back up, letting this go through to create the natural immunity and using the therapies we have (like India did) to stop deaths and illness.
The vaccine is making things worse becasue:
- it’s being used instead of therapies
- it’s the focus of attention rather than therapies
- it’s preventing us getting that natural reaponse
- it’s being used to divide society
- it’s a vehicle for social control.
There is also some new work out that it’s modulating the immune response for other things, in ways we don’t understand.
Wow, and you're a microbiologist, you say?
 

Otterly

Primark Primarch
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Wow, and you're a microbiologist, you say?
without being too specific, I work where molecular genetics meets drugs/medicine
I should edit the above to say that at worst the vaccines have a prophylactic effect, a higher risk profile than was advertised and we have no idea about mid term or long term effects either. It’s all a big mess.
 

Protistology

kiwifarms.net
Long, sorry… Well it would help if bodies like the cdc were honest in their data collection, but here’s my take on what is happening:
Governments were sold on the vaccine by being told it would stop the spread. Remember these people are politicians not epidemiologists or similar. They threw a HUGE amount of money at it. They’re all in on vaccines and they want them as well because it links in with the vaccine passport/social control.
Natural immunity gives someone a varying set of antibodies, so they will be able to fight off subsequent versions even if there’s been quite a bit of change. We don’t know how long that lasts but past experience with sars says severe illness will give you long term infection, mild illness long term protection and no illness means you had a degree of immunity anyway (the original sars survivors still have immunity to sars for context here.
The vaccine seems to give an initial strong protection that wanes fast. It also gives a very narrow antibody response so that when the virus changes it’s less effective. The vaccine also seems to have a higher risk than the trials said (quel surprise, they were poorly designed and too short.). Delta seems for infectious, not necessarily more harmful.
So you’ve got a situation where the most beneficial thing to be is previously infected or naturally immune and recovered. The ones who got vaccinated CAN get infected Amd CAN spread. They aren’t dying as much but they can still get sick and die. Those who never got infected or vaccinated will be exposed to the more infectious variant and be ill or not depending . But that pool of people who were vaccinated, are not so sick but are shedding at normal rates are hosts who incubate and create a selection pressure to evade the vaccine.
In a nutshell, the vaccines don’t work very well. They are at best a mild prophylactic and at worst creating conditions that favour vaccine evading mutations. Now the point of a vaccine is to STOP an infection. If it’s only a prophylactic then well we have better prophylactics with lower risk, like ivermectin, and raising peoples vitamin D level.
It’s a huge fuckup. We should be opening back up, letting this go through to create the natural immunity and using the therapies we have (like India did) to stop deaths and illness.
The vaccine is making things worse becasue:
- it’s being used instead of therapies
- it’s the focus of attention rather than therapies
- it’s preventing us getting that natural reaponse
- it’s being used to divide society
- it’s a vehicle for social control.
There is also some new work out that it’s modulating the immune response for other things, in ways we don’t understand.
So we SHOULD get the vax and twice yearly booster?
 
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