Foreign Media, Gaming, and Authoritarian Ethnic Nationalism -

SmallTalk201

kiwifarms.net
.

You can do this with just about any extreme ideology. I'm not trying to play "le enlightened centrist" here either, extreme ideologies often have some merit to them, but when it comes to true believers they're not there for consistency, they're in it because the idea that the things they think have turned the world to shit (even though it's always been in a consistent fall into shit, like a perfect shit orbit) will go away if they can get rid of them and having a group of like-minded folks helps them cope with that.

there this book by Howard bloom titled Lucifer principle. It explains how fanaticism (despite ideology) is nothing more then a result of greedy genes.

In short we all want to be Vikings (or khans) who rape, loot and plunder but have to give a veener of morals to give it respectability.

If only there were unironic white nationalists around to hash this out with.
I'm not one of them. Plus word white to describe people of Euro ancestry is used by corpo commies as a means to erase tribal identity and control said folks whose identity was erased.
People who all used to identify as polish, Hungarian, germany, italian, Spanish are now all called "white".
when a person can define and decide what to labels others the person doing the defining is controlling the group being defined and labeled.

By this logic being a white nationalist and taking up an identity which created by leftists (people who white nationalists oppose) have given up control of the battle to their opposition.

It's a losing strategy
 
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BLM Tyrone

Black Nationalism + /pol/ = Kike hate
kiwifarms.net
/pol/ is to other boards the exceptional cousin you’re nice to not because they’re exceptional, but because they’ll ass rape and dismember you in a millisecond for making them feel bad. Still good to make troll post on there tho.
 

Shaved Kiwis

Memetic Polyalloy
kiwifarms.net
You put more thought into their ideology than they have.

If that doesn't give you pause, I implore you to reflect on that.
Reminds me of that one white guy that somehow managed to fuck off to North Korea permanently. Fucker went to college and studied their Juche ideology and everything. The best part was that all the locals he spoke with were both amazed and dumbfounded that he bothered with that shit since none of them really did.

Lucky for you, I'm the real actual Neo Hilter!
Ask away, mein freund!
I get hating on minorities or foreigners, but the problem is that there are so many white niggers that I honestly don't see any race as worthy of preserving much less championing. If those yuppie faggots are worried about cow farts imagine how much good we could do for the environment if we gassed all humanoids.
 

heathercho

정말로? Yes! Okey dokey yo.
kiwifarms.net
I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt and try to understand things from their perspective, instead of just reflexively rejecting them. I realize that makes me a bit of an anomaly.
Nationalism = Good
Asians = Focused, Obidient, Loyal to the cause
Nationalism + Asians = Double Good

As for anime and gaming it's the same as it is for Asian men - an idealist view of the world that doesn't stress them too much.

Asian men, as a generalisation, are terrible under pressure. Not all of course, just a lot. Unless they are given strict directions and routine.
Anything outside of that and they lose their shit.

With society the way it is, with less routine, less certainty, they turn more and more to stuff like anime and gaming - because its firm routine and produces expected results. Same with men who are obsessed with idols. Expected behaviour.

Now you have that popping up in the west. Marriage isn't as easy to obtain, results aren't as they expected, work requires more with less results and nothing is certain.

So they turn to what is certain.

At least this is a theory I've read in a lot of Japan/Korea stuff. But I think it's pretty sound.

Anyone who attaches themselves to extreme ideology is looking for that social grounding. They want to be told what to do, think, act and they want the expected results of that.
Left/right it doesn't matter, they both want expected results. Progressivism is fixated on driving society to act in an expected way, so is alt-right/tradness.

I don't think it's some new thing either, seems to be the default in times of relative peace and prosperity that people seek grounding.
 

Y2K Baby

The Codex of Ultimate Wisdom???
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Nationalism = Good
Asians = Focused, Obidient, Loyal to the cause
Nationalism + Asians = Double Good

As for anime and gaming it's the same as it is for Asian men - an idealist view of the world that doesn't stress them too much.

Asian men, as a generalisation, are terrible under pressure. Not all of course, just a lot. Unless they are given strict directions and routine.
Anything outside of that and they lose their shit.

With society the way it is, with less routine, less certainty, they turn more and more to stuff like anime and gaming - because its firm routine and produces expected results. Same with men who are obsessed with idols. Expected behaviour.

Now you have that popping up in the west. Marriage isn't as easy to obtain, results aren't as they expected, work requires more with less results and nothing is certain.

So they turn to what is certain.

At least this is a theory I've read in a lot of Japan/Korea stuff. But I think it's pretty sound.

Anyone who attaches themselves to extreme ideology is looking for that social grounding. They want to be told what to do, think, act and they want the expected results of that.
Left/right it doesn't matter, they both want expected results. Progressivism is fixated on driving society to act in an expected way, so is alt-right/tradness.

I don't think it's some new thing either, seems to be the default in times of relative peace and prosperity that people seek grounding.
Can you fart on my lap
 

I Love Beef

Wandering Vagabond the 2nd. In memory
kiwifarms.net
>Ultrafundamentalist Christians awaiting the Apocalypse because they mixed together Nostradamus with the Bible believe that comic books are the devil's bibles in the 1950s, something something that bullshit "case study" that "violent media makes children violent" and "comics make people deviants", start up the Comics Code and forces kids to hand over their comics to trash and burn en masse
>Into the 1970s, said fundamentalists get assy over cartoons because of the increasing amount of violence in TV and movies, and find no other easy targets to take their frustrations out on
>The Video Game Crash of 1983 and televangelism get upset that heavy metal and video games are drawing away their children before the Apocalypse
>makes all comics and animation watered down and for kids along with getting the populace to think that anything illustrated is for bad storytelling and babysitting
>the Japanese Bubble economy and the 1990s happen
>Anime and manga as well as Japanese video games gets America to take it up the vagina for months and years on end because of years of creative stagnation by censorship
>2000 AD happens, nothing happens

Gee, I wonder why.
 

BLM Tyrone

Black Nationalism + /pol/ = Kike hate
kiwifarms.net
Over the years, /pol/ has been filled with so many normalfags that if you’re not the most bare bones white nationalist, it’s not even worth having a discussion there. But they used to make some fantastic bait.
 
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duff101

Certified degenerate faggot
kiwifarms.net
Radical ideologies usually have inherent flaws or contradictions because they are pretty hastily cobbled together in times of perceived or actual social pressure and strife. People are sheep and ignore these for the things they want to do because humans are selfish and ignorant.
 

Lemmingwise

Blamer
kiwifarms.net
So I've been thinking about this for a while, and I've noticed something that's pretty common among the Alt-Right/Neoreactionary/WN/whatever-you-want-to-call-them space in the Internet (specifically the anglophonic internet). You have these people who talk about how multiculturalism is an insidious poison, modern society is going down the drain and full of degeneracy, and we need to convert to some kind of heavily authoritarian blood-and-soil nationalist government to return to the best or correct path for our people; who also are really into video gaming and foreign media (typically anime). To me, there seems like there's a lot of contradictions involved in this sort of mindset, for the reasons outlined below:
-Anime is degenerate. I don't really believe in the idea of "degeneracy"personally, but based on my study of far-right social and political theory, the overwhelming majority of anime is antisocial and degenerate with their focus on primitive sexuality, homosexual subtext, the idea of moral grey areas, and in many cases promoting of incest, bestiality (e.g. catgirls), or fetishistic content.
-Ignoring these by-point examples, in a white ethnostate any anime is inherently degenerate, as its consumption is multicultural. Ethnonationalistic ideology requires that forms of art not produced by members of the state must be shunned as inferior by definition, as it is made in a foreign context and with foreign values and ideas in mind and therefore will not be compatible with the distinct spirit and character of the native peoples. The embrace of foreign media will degrade the identity of the people and endanger the homogeneity of the state.
-Gaming is also inherently degenerate. Gaming is a non-productive form of entertainment that encourages passivity over work or development of useful personal skills. Even with film one can at least appreciate cinematographic technique. One could argue that games have a superior ability to draw in and indoctrinate the people, as the ultimate purpose of art in an authoritarian state is as propaganda to reinforce and promote the values of the nation, but the vast majority of gaming genres (puzzle, horror, simulator, etc.) do not lend themselves to use as propaganda. Far more "gamers" build an identity around their media consumption than other forms of media, and that sort of subcultural identity is inherently a threat to the homogeneity and stability of the state. And gaming tends to be a very multicultural market, which is a further threat to homogeneity.

My question is twofold:
-Am I missing something here? Is it possible to be a major fan of a foreign media genre or video gaming, be an advocate for a fascist/authoritarian/whatever-you-want-to-call-it ethnostate, and maintain a consistent set of beliefs?
-If a Western nation became an authoritarian ethnostate, how would these "degenerate" media (and degenerate media in general) be dealt with? Given the internet and increasingly decentralized nature of communication, could they be dealt with?
I think there are two reasons why there's often overlap for anime and WN, one coincidental and one functional.
I don't have any stats to back it up, but I reckon that white nationalism and each of its adjacent ideologies has seen considerable growth particularly due to 4chan. It didn't just happen on 4chan, but it's a place that is so hugely influential due the constant evolutionary battle of memes that only the most baiting, most pernicious and most explosive comments and posts propagate, and they propagate very far. (I once had my boss's 15 year old son show me a meme I had created, apparently a friend had sent it to him on whatsapp). And 4chan is also a anime weeb site. So that overlap isn't really for anything functional, just a coincidence.
The more functional overlap is because in most media there aren't traditional gender roles, but you see them in anime. Of course it's full of fantasy, fan service and wish fulfillment too, and like any animation it gives room to project on it, but in anime a power woman is a character archetype, not a default.
Besides, if you look beyond the fact that it's passive entertainment, there are also wholesome anime shows, like say king of tennis.

--

As for the idea that it would be banned completely, I think the typical envisioned ethnostate is not one that limits access to other cultures. Less Japan Edo era that isolated itself completely and more like current Japan, where there is a protection to keep the vast majority of the population Japanese, but not closed off to tourists, experts, teachers, artists.

It's a bit silly to convey this through a comic, but this is the sentiment:

WN2.jpg


---

Your point about games being inherently degenerate are accurate, for the reasons you have stated. Though the idea that somehow cinematography is more active, participatory or culturally valuable is a strange comparison. They both have the capacity to be either vapid or deep.

Now to your direct questions:
Am I missing something here? Is it possible to be a major fan of a foreign media genre or video gaming, be an advocate for a fascist/authoritarian/whatever-you-want-to-call-it ethnostate, and maintain a consistent set of beliefs?
For ease sake I'm just going to refer to the disparate group with various goals as white nationalists. I think at least half of that group are libertarians who don't think there's room for libertarianism until the various threats to it are dealt with. The other part genuinely seek the more authoritarian strong state, and I imagine they see themselves as high in that hierarchy when it comes. Neither of these are incompatible, because the latter would have a sufficiently strong position in society that they can have access to and consume the media they want. The other envision a white society like say Orania. Very low-crime white society that is rather permissive to the inhabitants. It's the only place in the world, where only whites are allowed to live. Though having talked to considerable white nationalists (skewed no doubt for people I would enjoy talking to, so they're likely to be more centrist), they generally do not look for a 100% white country/society, but rather something like 95%+, or strong dominant white.
Do you think people in Orania would shame each other for making Indian curry, for example? Why would they?

-If a Western nation became an authoritarian ethnostate, how would these "degenerate" media (and degenerate media in general) be dealt with? Given the internet and increasingly decentralized nature of communication, could they be dealt with?
Could really go a million different ways. I have no idea. Depends on the country. Depends on the leaders. Depend on its people. Depends on the way it is achieved.

They too would have a political left and right in competition with each other. They too would have various foreign powers with an interest in manipulating both their leaders and populace. Though I think the assumption that all foreign media has to be expunged is a false one; not saying that it might not happen, or perhaps be likely, just that it doesn't necessarily follow by default.
 
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Lemmingwise

Blamer
kiwifarms.net
People who all used to identify as polish, Hungarian, germany, italian, Spanish are now all called "white".
when a person can define and decide what to labels others the person doing the defining is controlling the group being defined and labeled.

By this logic being a white nationalist and taking up an identity which created by leftists (people who white nationalists oppose) have given up control of the battle to their opposition.
I don't think this is accurate. Black people in America, despite being from various places in Africa, despite being made into one group by essentially their opponents, despite being on average 20% european descent, DO benefit from the "black" identity. Because this identity unifies them as a large group and allows them pretty big fishing ponds for finding political support. If they instead had 30 different tribe affiliations, any organizational effort would be more difficult as there'd be more barriers to growth of any organizing. And this identity of "black" is easily forged by having a shared exodus from Africa, but more importantly, a shared enemy in the former slaveholders.

Similarly not preserving such identities as German and Italian, but rather subsuming to "white", has the advantage of allow bigger fishing ponds and chance for building tight bonds. And this unity into "white" is strengthened too by the fact that there is growing disparagement and hatred against white people. As a long distance observer, it seems to me that americans of european descent do benefit from the white identity, perhaps more so than the specific nations they're from. The differences between these italian/german identities isn't insignificant, but considering they have quite a lot of shared enemies and shared goals, it seems like a convenient identity or flag to unite under.

Enemies is a bit of an exaggerated term, perhaps competitor would be better, but you get what I'm driving at.
 

Spoonge

kiwifarms.net
One, homogenous nation consisting of a powderkeg of different ethnicities, religions and cultures= bad
Multiple, culturally and ethnically different nations that co-exist= good
I'm sorry I dont see where the 'Everyone that isnt my nation must be slaughtered' part of nationalism. I mean sure it goes that way sometimes but I dont WANT to kill minorities, I just want them out of my country and off building their own. I would happily support M'bong'klick'klick's nation of muhdick as long as its territory didnt consist of ghettos in my fucking city.

Wait what were we talking about? Right animu. If our media wasnt so shit I wouldnt have to go to the japs for entertainment. I dont know who to blame for this phenomenon.
 

BLM Tyrone

Black Nationalism + /pol/ = Kike hate
kiwifarms.net
I think there are two reasons why there's often overlap for anime and WN, one coincidental and one functional.
I don't have any stats to back it up, but I reckon that white nationalism and each of its adjacent ideologies has seen considerable growth particularly due to 4chan. It didn't just happen on 4chan, but it's a place that is so hugely influential due the constant evolutionary battle of memes that only the most baiting, most pernicious and most explosive comments and posts propagate, and they propagate very far. (I once had my boss's 15 year old son show me a meme I had created, apparently a friend had sent it to him on whatsapp). And 4chan is also a anime weeb site. So that overlap isn't really for anything functional, just a coincidence.
The more functional overlap is because in most media there aren't traditional gender roles, but you see them in anime. Of course it's full of fantasy, fan service and wish fulfillment too, and like any animation it gives room to project on it, but in anime a power woman is a character archetype, not a default.
Besides, if you look beyond the fact that it's passive entertainment, there are also wholesome anime shows, like say king of tennis.

--

As for the idea that it would be banned completely, I think the typical envisioned ethnostate is not one that limits access to other cultures. Less Japan Edo era that isolated itself completely and more like current Japan, where there is a protection to keep the vast majority of the population Japanese, but not closed off to tourists, experts, teachers, artists.

It's a bit silly to convey this through a comic, but this is the sentiment:

View attachment 931984

---

Your point about games being inherently degenerate are accurate, for the reasons you have stated. Though the idea that somehow cinematography is more active, participatory or culturally valuable is a strange comparison. They both have the capacity to be either vapid or deep.

Now to your direct questions:


For ease sake I'm just going to refer to the disparate group with various goals as white nationalists. I think at least half of that group are libertarians who don't think there's room for libertarianism until the various threats to it are dealt with. The other part genuinely seek the more authoritarian strong state, and I imagine they see themselves as high in that hierarchy when it comes. Neither of these are incompatible, because the latter would have a sufficiently strong position in society that they can have access to and consume the media they want. The other envision a white society like say Orania. Very low-crime white society that is rather permissive to the inhabitants. It's the only place in the world, where only whites are allowed to live. Though having talked to considerable white nationalists (skewed no doubt for people I would enjoy talking to, so they're likely to be more centrist), they generally do not look for a 100% white country/society, but rather something like 95%+, or strong dominant white.
Do you think people in Orania would shame each other for making Indian curry, for example? Why would they?



Could really go a million different ways. I have no idea. Depends on the country. Depends on the leaders. Depend on its people. Depends on the way it is achieved.

They too would have a political left and right in competition with each other. They too would have various foreign powers with an interest in manipulating both their leaders and populace. Though I think the assumption that all foreign media has to be expunged is a false one; not saying that it might not happen, or perhaps be likely, just that it doesn't necessarily follow by default.
What a great comic, very intelligent discussion. Rare for a pro nationalist to actually make great arguments now a days without just spewing supremacy.
 
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Lemmingwise

Blamer
kiwifarms.net
What a great comic, very intelligent discussion. Rare for a pro nationalist to actually make great arguments now a days without just spewing supremacy
It's actually an edit of an anti nationalist comic. That one was essentially just the left side, with some less text.
 
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