Manosphere Jordan Peterson - Internet Daddy Simulator, Post-modern Anti-postmodernist, Canadian Psychology Professor, Depressed, Got Hooked on Benzos

GranDuke

kiwifarms.net
I dislike him for a couple of reasons, The first of him changing his personality and religious ''intensity'' to appeal to Americans. I used to watch him on a Canadian talk show (when he'd make appearances) years ago and he really wasn't all that religious, political or divisive. He gave rather mundane advice like ''How to talk to your kids''.
I think that when it comes to religion you could see it in real time after he got famous. At first he didn't look religious at all, then he started doing "I don't know" stuff and eventual got into "does God exist?" debates and started making wild claims that you can't quit smoking without God or that people that don't believe in God can't create art. And everyone is Christian, because otherwise we'd be killing each other.
 

Justtocheck

kiwifarms.net
A lot of his lectures and about self awareness, control, and taking care of yourself, so I think the distinction between psychological addiction and a physical addiction made sense. Some people domt understand the route of addiction or what position his body is in, criticize his will power, and use this as a way to call his teachings moot. I dont think hes trying to excuse or hide the word "addiction", I think that distinction and description is helpful and accurate.
lol, come on. The dude needed benzos to cope. That's psychological. The daughter doesn't want to say it's psychological because it'd undermines him. Besides, trusting what the daughter says is not exactly advisable.
 

John Andrews Stan

Antichrist, scoffer
kiwifarms.net
His daughter isn’t as slick as she thinks she is. Addiction is comprised of physical compulsion and mental obsession with the substance or behavior/process. That’s why simply detoxing isn’t enough to keep an addict straight and they invariably end up relapsing.

Her BS — which I am sure she believes — is really unhelpful and I’m not taking it for granted that her dad signed off on it. Even if he did, I can well imagine him correcting the record someday when he’s in good enough shape to do so.

All that said, I wouldn’t wish addiction of any kind on anyone. Not even the edgelords who think it’s clever to make a show of doing so.
 

Sweetpeaa

kiwifarms.net
I think that when it comes to religion you could see it in real time after he got famous. At first he didn't look religious at all, then he started doing "I don't know" stuff and eventual got into "does God exist?" debates and started making wild claims that you can't quit smoking without God or that people that don't believe in God can't create art. And everyone is Christian, because otherwise we'd be killing each other.
Between me and you, I don't even think he's religious at all. I think this is media personality that he has researched. I just get the feeling he's a man of many masks. He will pretend to be many things he is not for different motives. Even the motive of throwing people off the scent to what's really going on in his personal life. All his shit is out in the open now and as much as I don't like him I do get a bit of second hand embarrassment for him being exposed as a man with drug dependency issues and from what I've heard suicide attempts too.
 

Bryan Dunn

KoP & Exceptional Detective
True & Honest Fan
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Everything else is poli-sperging imo.
That's every clinical psychology professor in college woth tenure (not the sjw-esque new professors). They just stay wrapped up in various ideas and thesis papers they come up with. Its definitely the most entertaining thing youll experience in Graduate school imo.
 

Sweetpeaa

kiwifarms.net
His daughter isn’t as slick as she thinks she is. Addiction is comprised of physical compulsion and mental obsession with the substance or behavior/process. That’s why simply detoxing isn’t enough to keep an addict straight and they invariably end up relapsing.

Her BS — which I am sure she believes — is really unhelpful and I’m not taking it for granted that her dad signed off on it. Even if he did, I can well imagine him correcting the record someday when he’s in good enough shape to do so.

All that said, I wouldn’t wish addiction of any kind on anyone. Not even the edgelords who think it’s clever to make a show of doing so.
Children protect their parents naturally. She can do her little damage control dance. She's not helping her father by lying for him.
 

John Andrews Stan

Antichrist, scoffer
kiwifarms.net
Children protect their parents naturally. She can do her little damage control dance. She's not helping her father by lying for him.
Thing is, I don’t think she perceives it as lying. I’m sure she sees it as damage control. But I’m equally sure she thinks her father is too smart and educated to be a “real” addict. That kind of thinking about addiction is still all too common. Truth is, nobody’s too anything to become an addict. But plenty of people let their intelligence and education get in the way of getting unfucked. You can’t think or reason your way out of addiction and some find this impossible to grasp. Addiction is a great equalizer, but that doesn’t sit well with a lot of people.
 

Freedom Fries

Bring beef tallow back
kiwifarms.net
you only take this amount of benzo if you trying to kill yourself with it. holy shit, he took so much he can barely walk or type on a keyboeard, its fucking batshit! atleast we know where all that money went.
It's virtually impossible to kill yourself by ODing on just benzos. If you have a couple drinks before/after slamming the whole bottle though you will be likely to stop breathing.

He addresses many culturally significant issues but never touches on race or the importance of Trump's Chosen people in government, so people who consider themselves racial realists or "J-woke" hate him. He also has a history doing work for the UN, which anti-Globalist people will obviously despise. If you follow this line of thinking, Peterson is likely a UN/CIA plant whose objective is to train young men to look away from race.

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But let's just be realistic, the topic of race and Trump's Chosen People is completely radioactive in mainstream media and culture, if he went in that direction he would have been deplatformed really quick.
So the whole Trump's Chosen People thing ended up being a problem for 2 main reasons

1. When faced with the question, 'Why do Trump's Chosen people do so well as a group?' Peterson didn't say anything about having a strong culture, a strong community, historic wealth, education... or refuse to answer the question at all. Peterson said Trump's Chosen People have higher IQs than everyone else on average. This may or may not be true, but he was unwilling to follow this train of thought he so conveniently applied to this situation to any other racial and social issues.

2. He made his point freedom of speech and proceeded to exile a speaker who was supposed to be on a panel with him because they did an interview at the great Charlottesville spergout. Now I don't personally think Faith Goldy has anything interesting to say and she is a rather poorly hidden altrigher, but I can't recall her ever explicitly expressing support for anything beyond VDare type politics. Also, kicking someone off a freedom of speech panel because you disagree with their politics is bound to cause you some entirely justified pushback.

The time to deal with it wasn't now while she's alive and needs him but later when he can safely fall apart.
IIRC she is in remission, so it really would be the best time to do rehab.
 
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mindlessobserver

kiwifarms.net
But he clearly is/was psychologically addicted to (dependent on) the pills. That psychological dependency led to physical addiction. His psyche couldn't handle a personal health matter and turned to pills to deal with it. Then an unfortunate family health matter happened and his psyche was so dependent on the pills to handle life's hard moments that he had the dose increased. He's not an idiot, he knew what a long-term relationship with benzos will do to a person, yet he still made the decision to up the dose to deal with life. That's psychological dependency. He will need to acknowledge and address the psychological aspect that drove him into physical addiction, otherwise what happens the next time life throws hard shit at his feet?
Failing to live up to ideals does not in itself make the ideals invalid. Some of the best philosophers in history used their own fucked up lives as the basis for explaining shit people should not do. The fact that Peterson is about to go out like Nietzsche is pure poetry. It rhymes.
 

Sweetpeaa

kiwifarms.net
Thing is, I don’t think she perceives it as lying. I’m sure she sees it as damage control. But I’m equally sure she thinks her father is too smart and educated to be a “real” addict. That kind of thinking about addiction is still all too common. Truth is, nobody’s too anything to become an addict. But plenty of people let their intelligence and education get in the way of getting unfucked. You can’t think or reason your way out of addiction and some find this impossible to grasp. Addiction is a great equalizer, but that doesn’t sit well with a lot of people.
I'm sure her father spoke disparaging about addicts he interacted with or that he passed on the street (and there's a lot of those in Toronto). She can't bring herself to put her father in the same boat as ''those people''. This is just the snob mentality and how unhelpful of a mentality it is. One day she'll find dad face down in the bath tub.
 

Freedom Fries

Bring beef tallow back
kiwifarms.net
Between me and you, I don't even think he's religious at all. I think this is media personality that he has researched. I just get the feeling he's a man of many masks. He will pretend to be many things he is not for different motives. Even the motive of throwing people off the scent to what's really going on in his personal life. All his shit is out in the open now and as much as I don't like him I do get a bit of second hand embarrassment for him being exposed as a man with drug dependency issues and from what I've heard suicide attempts too.
I think he has been pretty open about his depression and having taken medication for it insofar as he definitely mentioned it before while he was still on his way up. Clearly he didn't share the extent.

There is definitely the view that psychologists and other experts should be immune to their fields problems.

Don't quite get that. Knowing exactly what you have and all the tricks of the trade probably causes more harm than good.
Psychologists and Psychiatrists are known to be a clinically insane/unwell/abnormal lot. There's a lot of people with severe issues within themselves or close family who go into it... probably sparks the initial interest.
 

Gustav Schuchardt

Trans exclusionary radical feminazi.
kiwifarms.net
There is definitely the view that psychologists and other experts should be immune to their fields problems.

Don't quite get that. Knowing exactly what you have and all the tricks of the trade probably causes more harm than good.
It's also highly plausible that people with mental health problems go into psychology to try to fix themselves.
 

John Andrews Stan

Antichrist, scoffer
kiwifarms.net
I'm sure her father spoke disparaging about addicts he interacted with or that he passed on the street (and there's a lot of those in Toronto). She can't bring herself to put her father in the same boat as ''those people''. This is just the snob mentality and how unhelpful of a mentality it is. One day she'll find dad face down in the bath tub.
Peterson has always struck me as a remarkably empathetic person. He has previously demonstrated a good grasp of addiction recovery methods and let’s just say his 12 Rules were heavily inspired by the 12 Step approach. I seriously doubt she picked up any anti-addict sentiment from him.
 

MirnaMinkoff

Mama, nobody sends you a turd and expects to live.
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
He couldn't even follows his own rules.
He even had his daughter be a patsy for him and make her roll out this bullshit story of extreme excuses.

Sure a “severe autoimmune reaction to food” required he start eating “low dose” benzos. He started eating them by the fistful when his wife was diagnosed with cancer. I’m sure her husband putting himself in a 24/7 benzo haze really helped her cope with her impending death. He decided being the rock of the family in the wake tragic news wasn’t for him, better to eat pills and nope out.

Sounds like he couldn’t man up and medically taper off the benzos here because it was too uncomfortable. He wanted the “knock me out” and make my addiction go away while I’m unconscious- which isn’t going to work. Ive only heard of it being done for opiates, never benzos. How long would he have to be zonked out to do a benzo withdrawal?‽ Damn no wonder his brain is fucked up.

The insistence HIS addiction isn’t psychological and refusal to even utter the word addiction is amusing. I’m sure it was nearly impossible to treat a guy in the west of a benzo addiction he insisted wasn’t an addiction at all. It was a physical dependence due to an autoimmune reaction to food and his wife’s cancer!

He seems incapable of admitting he fucked up, starting relying on benzos to cope and got hooked. It’s a pretty common story but I guess that’s for weak plebs who don’t man up and make their bed every morning.
 

Fareal

will definitely consider what you have said
True & Honest Fan
kiwifarms.net
Let’s speak frankly about benzodiazepine dependency. We use that word in the UK rather than addiction for exactly the reason being discussed: people freak out “I AM NOT A DRUG ADDICT” whilst having every one of the features of addiction to benzodiazepines. People still think you can’t get addicted to prescription drugs. Everyone with a repeat script for tramadol and/or diazepam knows better, to their cost.

I dgaf about JP. I don’t agree with a lot of his opinions, but that means fuck all to anyone but me, and I certainly wish the guy no harm. This is why his daughter’s apparent unwillingness to face the fact he was dependent on benzos is actually a problem. I have been in all flavours of 12 step groups, I have been in inpatient rehab briefly for a managed detox, and I have been inpatient for disordered eating. If it is stupid and harmful to me, I have tried it and liked it.

Does that make me a bad person? Doesn’t fucking matter as long as I’m sober and well whether I’m a bad person or not. If addiction is born of moral failing, well then I’m fucked but I work real hard everyday to do better. I have learnt a lot from the help of those who started me down a clean and sober path. I doubt JP is doing Twelve Steps, and I agree it is not the way forward for everyone, but some of what happens in [Shit Thing] Anonymous is pretty relevant to everyone living the struggle.

Step One is “we admitted we were powerless over [life-fucking thing] and that our lives had become unmanageable“. There’s no dancing on the head of a pin there about whether your addiction is psychological or physical, because the reason you are sat there is it doesn‘t fucking matter. Your life is unmanageable because of the thing. Your life is swirling down the pan and you cannot stop doing the thing, even though you want to, and the reason you can’t stop doing the thing does not matter to your long term recovery.

What matters is that you are going to try your damndest, with whatever help you need and can get from medics and groups (you absolutely must not stop long term benzo use cold turkey. People fucking die doing that. You do not do that so JP is 100% correct to have first approached medics about the detox. Benzos are fucking poison and coming off opiates is a fucking cakewalk in comparison in my experience) , to stop doing the thing and to stay stopped.

The biggest thing you need to do this, especially outside of a program or if you start moving away from a program, is accountability. That means your partner, your family, your friends need to be willing to ask you hard questions and keep tabs on you. I have some pretty shitty restrictions on my life because I need to be accountable. I get an allowance like a fucking child because I have a gambling problem that is a real monkey on my back and having limited access to money and zero access to a credit card stops me losing thousands. The benzos I am prescribed for emergency use only are not held by me but by my spouse and they are hidden somewhere in the house away from the regular medicine cabinet. I have been a rare and responsible drinker for many many years, but there’s still a line marked on the bottles and he opens them to check now and then. I don’t get to open my own mail in case there’s drugs in it. There are friends who cannot be trusted not to offer me coke, so I don’t see them alone. If I‘ve been seen skipping meals or claiming to have eaten earlier for a few days in a row, I have to eat under supervision and get weighed. There are no scales allowed in my house so I have to get weighed with a set he keeps at work. I get looked at for cutting marks regularly.

I live a life full of shame, and some of it feels like punishment for shit I haven’t done in twenty years or more. But I am not entitled to the kind of blanket trust that someone who has not repeatedly attempted to destroy their life is. This is what accountability looks like in recovery. It fucking blows. And if there is not someone or several someones prepared to be this kind of a dick to you in recovery - especially in the early years - you are being given a fuckload of rope to hang yourself with. You are being given the opportunity to continue to lie to yourself about the extent of your problem. And that is exactly how you built the issue into a problem in the first place.

Saying your dependency “is only physical” isn‘t effective accountability. Otherwise, when you detox from opiates, you would never relapse. Except relapse in opiate recovery is sky high, amd in alcohol recovery even worse. So there were other reasons you used the thing you used, and there is not going to be a long term solution for you that doesn’t involve confronting that. I didn’t enjoy the endless therapy to let me sleep at night. I did enjoy swallowing benzos and floating off all warm and dozy instead. But only one of these things was a long term solution, so I had to do one and quit the other.

JP has anxiety. Anxiety is shitty, I should know. Panic disorder is shitty. I cannot even imagine how he is feeling trying to support a spouse through a terminal illness. But no matter how good and reasonable his initial reasons for benzo use were, he is now dependent and admitting that they are making his life unmanageable. That means he needs to fully commit to recovery. The reasons he started taking them have not necessarily gone away.

It doesn’t matter how good the reason was for getting on the bus; when the bus is hurtling straight off the cliff, you have to get off. He must get clean and stay clean. I wish him all the best with this. God knows, he may not find it easy. He may have to do this more than once. But it can be done.
 

Trigger Me Timbers

Reformed Kekistani
kiwifarms.net
Man I am hating all the pronoun twitter people and the tranny chasing gamers rejoicing that Peterson is suffering because he suggested they should clean their rooms.
I am disappointed in Peterson for the dumb free speech platform and he did seem to get a bit full of himself, but he really does talk a lot of truth and I hope people don’t forget that because “lol he like da drugz because his room dirty”
 

SS Reichsmarshall

I'm a member of Trump's Chosen People, I swear!
kiwifarms.net
Quacks like Jordan Peterson and many of his followers often say that depression and other mental illness that you can't physically see is just someone faking it. They just assume its a millenial "snowflake" pretending to be depressed to get attention. Typical of small minded people to assume that just because you can't see something, doesn't mean it's not there, just like how you cant see gravity.
They assume that all of the millions of psychiatrists are all conspiring to sell antidepressants to people to make money. Now, obviously some of these conspiracies are real like the Sackler opioid scheme. However, the science behind depression and anxiety is sound. Depression is real and so is anxiety.