World Mass protests in Madrid over Catalan separatist talks - El chalecos amarillos?

CWCissey

Charming Man
True & Honest Fan
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47190135

Tens of thousands gathered in Madrid for a protest by right-wing parties opposed to a Spanish government plan to ease tension in the Catalonia region.

The centre-right Popular Party (PP) and Ciudadanos (Citizens) say Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez's plan to appoint an intermediary for talks with separatists amounts to treason.

The separatists have rejected the offer - they want a new independence vote.

Like the right, the ruling Socialists also oppose Catalan independence.

Far-right groups including the Vox party are also present at the protest, held under the slogan "For a united Spain. Elections now!"

Protesters filled the Spanish capital's Colon Square and nearby streets, many of them chanting "long live Spain". Police put the total number of demonstrators at 45,000.

What are the protesters saying?
They say the government's offer to separatists to hold round table talks and appoint a special rapporteur amounts to a capitulation and they want elections scheduled for 2020 brought forward.

Image copyrightREUTERS
Image copyrightEPA
Image captionThe far-right Vox party is also part of the protest - its president Santiago Abascal seen here
One protester, Mabel Campuzano, told Reuters news agency that Mr Sánchez was "betraying Spain and we think that Spaniards don't deserve him as the president of the government".

In a speech, PP leader Pablo Casado denounced Mr Sánchez's policies as "Socialist surrender" and "deals under the table", Efe news agency reports.

"Sánchez's time is over," Mr Casado said, adding that the protests were a turning point and the beginning of a return to "harmony and legality" in Spain.

What does the government say?
Speaking shortly afterwards at a local election campaign meeting, Mr Sánchez said his Socialist party had always been on the side of dialogue, and was now attempting to resolve a crisis made worse by the PP while it was in power.

On Friday the government said the separatists had rejected its framework for talks.



Media captionWhat happened to Catalonia? One year on
Deputy Prime Minister Carmen Calvo said the situation had "stalled", as separatist calls for an independence referendum were "not acceptable".

Meanwhile the separatists accused the government itself of abandoning dialogue.

What's the background?
Mr Sánchez heads a minority government that relies on the support of other parties including Catalan nationalists.

His government faces a key vote on Wednesday on its proposed 2019 budget - failure to approve it could lead to a snap election.

Catalan nationalist parties have said that their support for the budget depends on whether Mr Sanchez's proposed talks with separatists include the issue of independence.

Mr Sánchez has, however, ruled out the possibility of a Catalan independence referendum.

Polls show that the PP, Ciudadanos and Vox would together win a majority in a general election. In December the three parties together won power in the southern region of Andalusia, ousting the Socialists, who had been in power there for 36 years.

What has been happening in Catalonia?
Catalan nationalists regained power in Barcelona in May, after a seven-month period of direct rule by Madrid.

Mr Sánchez became prime minister the following month, making negotiations with the pro-independence movement his priority.

Tensions remain high, as many Catalans resent Madrid's show of force last year, when it charged pro-independence leaders with sedition.

Some of them are due to go on trial on Tuesday and face up to 25 years in prison.

In December Catalan premier Quim Torra irritated the Spanish government by praising Slovenia's successful path to independence. It broke away from Yugoslavia in 1991, after a 10-day war.



Catalonia in numbers




  • 16% of Spain's population live in Catalonia, and it produces:

  • 25.6% of Spain's exports

  • 19% of Spain's GDP

  • 20.7% of foreign investment
Source: Ministry of Economy, Industry and Competitiveness, Eurostat, Bank of Spain
Another European nation pisses it's population off enough to get them on the streets.
 

Hux

kiwifarms.net

Otis Boi

Cow man extraordinaire
kiwifarms.net
Right-wing to the bongs and the rest of Europe is considered center-left in the US so that's not surprising at all
So does that make Democrats literally Nazis to Eurofags or is there am super ultra far-right that most us conservatives be considered.
 

LetterlandMafia

Foreclose on me one more time
kiwifarms.net
Lmao what?? Is that just off Anus Avenue?
Colon is Spanish for Columbus. I believe his Spanish name was Cristobal Colon. There are a lot of places in Latin America called Colon for that reason.

My stance on Catalan independence is that it’s off the table until the Catalan authorities can stop Barcelona being the crime-ridden shithole it currently is.
 

Aristophanes

Writing plays for Lolcows since 446 BC
kiwifarms.net
So does that make Democrats literally Nazis to Eurofags or is there am super ultra far-right that most us conservatives be considered.
The Democrats aren't seen as Nazis, but more as conservatives - they're more like the modern Tory Party in the UK, while the Republicans stray into old school Tory/UKIP lines.

The Soc-Dems in the Democrats though would fit more into the Labour Party than they would the Tories.
 

Absolutego

kiwifarms.net
My stance on Catalan independence is that it’s off the table until the Catalan authorities can stop Barcelona being the crime-ridden shithole it currently is.
Catalonia will only happen in the most extreme of circumstances, for the same reason any regional independence movement in Europe (outside of the Balkans) fails: because it will empower every other separatist movement in western Europe. If Catalonia forms, the Basques, the Occitans, Northern Italy, and Bavaria all start pushing for independence with renewed vigor and public support.
 

Foxxo

Mistakes were made.
kiwifarms.net
Catalonia will only happen in the most extreme of circumstances, for the same reason any regional independence movement in Europe (outside of the Balkans) fails: because it will empower every other separatist movement in western Europe. If Catalonia forms, the Basques, the Occitans, Northern Italy, and Bavaria all start pushing for independence with renewed vigor and public support.
Spain is a regional empire that was cobbled together by the Castilians (which most of the world today just calls the Spanish), didn't exist in practice until 1516 (under the Habsburgs), wasn't defined in written law as the true government over the various states and peoples within its borders until 1715 (under the French Bourbons), didn't have a written constitution until 1812 (which was basically worthless because Napoleon and his puppets held the country by the balls and was then repealed in 1814), and became a revolving door of far-left and far-right regimes up until Franco's death in 1975 and the failed military coup in 1981. It's almost like Austria-Hungary, except it was neutral in World War One and thus wasn't fragged.

Catalonia has been a problem child for Spanish Kings ever since it lost its independence to Aragon in 1162, and as long as only the far-left nationalists and far-right nationalists within the region are visible in Catalan politics, it'll continue to be this way forever.
 

Cosmug

Gay Niggers from Ultra Space
kiwifarms.net
First of all the Catalonians voted 90% for independence in October of 20-fucking-17 and Madrid just said “naw fuck that” declared it illegitimate with police brutality. Now the socialists, in power for 36 years (in a row?!) are screaming “far right” at anything moving towards the proposal? Holy shit, fuck globalists.
 

LetterlandMafia

Foreclose on me one more time
kiwifarms.net
First of all the Catalonians voted 90% for independence in October of 20-fucking-17 and Madrid just said “naw fuck that” declared it illegitimate with police brutality. Now the socialists, in power for 36 years (in a row?!) are screaming “far right” at anything moving towards the proposal? Holy shit, fuck globalists.
The official line is that the poll was organised by the Catalan authorities without approval from Madrid, and as an extension of this anti-independence factions in Catalonia boycotted the poll. I can believe there was a boycott from the pro-Madrid side, but it's fair to say the response from Madrid was really heavy handed.
 

Cosmug

Gay Niggers from Ultra Space
kiwifarms.net
The official line is that the poll was organised by the Catalan authorities without approval from Madrid, and as an extension of this anti-independence factions in Catalonia boycotted the poll. I can believe there was a boycott from the pro-Madrid side, but it's fair to say the response from Madrid was really heavy handed.
Madrid seemed to know what the results would look like ahead of time because they were closing down polling stations on the day of the vote.
 

Bum Driller

Cultural Appropriator & Cowboy Chemist
kiwifarms.net
So does that make Democrats literally Nazis to Eurofags or is there am super ultra far-right that most us conservatives be considered.
To be honest, Democrats are much more right-wing than most of the conservative or otherwise right-wing parties in Europe. From european perspective almost all parties in USA are more or less ultra-right-wing, while from american perspective almost all european parties would be almost socialistic in agenda. For example, in my country all parties, including those whose main agenda is the advancement of capitalism or conservative christian values, are more to the left than Democrats.
 
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