RWBY - The Hindenburg on which Rooster Teeth rests its hopes, dreams and future

ChevroletBlackboard

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Even as someone who does think Adam was a badly written character before and after the abuser turn, I don't think it was an M&K brainchild. Not saying they're not often bad writers but Monty wasn't exactly batting home runs every time.

My big theory on this is Shane's letter that he wrote after V3. Shane spends an entire page whining about how a fight between Raven and JNPR was cut when it would have likely been a mess, alongside mentioning that Adam was meant to have a full fight with Yang. But Shane never mentions anything about Adam as a character, and given how the letter goes into a lot of detail on M&K 'ruining Monty's vision' or somesuch, I feel like Miles or Kerry entirely throwing Adam's character out to make him an abusive hate-sink would have been something Shane got livid about.
 
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Pixy Misa

Your local evil magical girl.
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My big theory on this is Shane's letter that he wrote after V3. Shane spends an entire page whining about how a fight between Raven and JNPR was cut when it would have likely been a mess, alongside mentioning that Adam was meant to have a full fight with Yang. But Shane never mentions anything about Adam as a character, and given how the letter goes into a lot of detail on M&K 'ruining Monty's vision' or somesuch, I feel like Miles or Kerry entirely throwing Adam's character out to make him an abusive hate-sink would have been something Shane got livid about.
I think this is the problem with people that defend "Monty's vision". The man was an amazing animator, and he loved his anime, and he did fantastic work doing all the groundwork, but he was also a terrible writer. But I don't hold this against him because he knew his limits.

For starters this:

"Geography determines your culture and culture determines your people-Monty Oum""
That quote alone explains why RWBY had a bad start (story-wise) where the heroes didn't even know the villains existed after 4 seasons.

That might, and I say that with a huge grain of salt because I don't agree with Tabula rasa, be true in real life, but for writing that is wrong on so many levels. It's actually backward. I have some writer friends that love creating worlds, civilizations, and even entire universes, but they lose sight of what matters the most in a story: The characters.

In a story, the characters define both the culture and geography your story needs.

Tolkien might be an exception because his stories were just an excuse for his languages and world-building, but I would also argue that save for his die-hard fans, the stories that really resonated with the general public are character-based (The Hobbit and LOTR). Gandalf is part of Pop Culture; "Numenor" is not.

I sincerely doubt Monty's vision was anything more complex than "cute anime girls kick a lot of ass". I think in the long run Monty would've been happy with keeping animating an amazing choreography, but his vision still needed a competent writing team to take it beyond mere eye candy.

I'm aware Monty did have some ideas like why Ozpin didn't have a name based on color, but what actually needed work was the plot and how his characters would grow and develop as people.
 
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Random Internet Person

Panzer Vor, motherfuckers!
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Even as someone who does think Adam was a badly written character before and after the abuser turn, I don't think it was an M&K brainchild. Not saying they're not often bad writers but Monty wasn't exactly batting home runs every time.
Just because I wanna keep the baseball analogy going, what would you say Monty’s batting average was? I’d ask what player you’d compare Monty (and maybe Miles and Kerry) to but I don’t wanna clog this place up.
I sincerely doubt Monty's vision was anything more complex than "cute anime girls kick a lot of ass". I think in the Monty would've been happy with keeping animating an amazing choreography, but his vision still needed a competent writing team to take it beyond mere eye candy.
When you boil things down, that’s a good way to say it, especially with how condensed the first two volumes were and how later volumes felt hollow due to shitty worldbuilding and character development that left things to be desired.
 
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Chilson

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Just because I wanna keep the baseball analogy going, what would you say Monty’s batting average was? I’d ask what player you’d compare Monty (and maybe Miles and Kerry) to but I don’t wanna clog this place up.

When you boil things down, that’s a good way to say it, especially with how condensed the first two volumes were and how later volumes felt hollow due to shitty worldbuilding and character development that left things to be desired.
Writing batting average .1 for all three (then it dipped to a .05 with just M&K). Animation batting average was a solid .8 for Monty (after his death that slipped to a .4).

I think this is the problem with people that defend "Monty's vision". The man was an amazing animator, and he loved his anime, and he did fantastic work doing all the groundwork, but he was also a terrible writer. But I don't hold this against him because he knew his limits.

For starters this:



That quote alone explains why RWBY had a bad start where the heroes didn't even know the villains existed after 4 seasons.

That might, and I say that with a huge grain of salt because I don't agree with Tabula rasa, be true in real life, but for writing that is wrong on so many levels. It's actually backward. I have some writer friends that love creating worlds, civilizations, and even entire universes, but they lose sight of what matters the most in a story: The characters.

In a story, the characters define both the culture and geography your story needs.

Tolkien might be an exception because his stories were just an excuse for his languages and world-building, but I would also argue that save for his die-hard fans, the stories that really resonated with the general public are character-based (The Hobbit and LOTR). Gandalf is part of Pop Culture; "Numenor" is not.

I sincerely doubt Monty's vision was anything more complex than "cute anime girls kick a lot of ass". I think in the long run Monty would've been happy with keeping animating an amazing choreography, but his vision still needed a competent writing team to take it beyond mere eye candy.

I'm aware Monty did have some ideas like why Ozpin didn't have a name based on color, but what actually needed work was the plot and how his characters would grow and develop as people.
This. The reality is that you develop characters first then think of what culture/geography would create, challenge, and or be opposed to these characters. Usually, this is done by creating supporting and antagonistic characters who in turn help the writer expand on the culture/geography through different perspectives from said characters. This creates multi-layered worlds with multi-layered characters avoiding the "one dimensional" issue with characters. The reason villains (and often supporting characters) are written so terribly much more often than the main character is because writers stop thinking about how other characters affect/were born from the culture/geography after creating the protagonist. This leads to a lot of one dimensional characters who are only ever birthed from the influence that the protagonist creates and only ever do things when the protagonist needs them to happen rather than creating their own influence or more accurately sub-culture/counter-culture to the protagonist.

Its difficult and can be very confusing to write because it requires a different mindset. You have to build an overlapping series of interconnected worlds around the characters rather than put the characters in the world. Which often requires that you cheat a little bit, a lot like a video game that overlaps map geometry to give the appearance of a large world when its all just stacked on top of itself. That's all stories are, a series of worlds developed for characters overlapping onto themselves. Then again, to be a great writer requires the ability to create an illusion so powerful that simply reading the words off a page can create whole new realities in peoples minds.

The greatest example of this multi-layered character/culture writing can probably be found in the GOT and Witcher books. The world doesn't start and end with Ned stark and Geralt of Rivia, there are other players on the board doing things and influencing/are influenced by every other character/the world even if the reader is not explicitly told about it.
 
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ChevroletBlackboard

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Just because I wanna keep the baseball analogy going, what would you say Monty’s batting average was? I’d ask what player you’d compare Monty (and maybe Miles and Kerry) to but I don’t wanna clog this place up.
I mean per his own admission, he was an awful writer. Talented designer and choreographer, but RWBY without M&K at launch would have likely been even more one-note.

Again, I'm not saying Miles and Kerry are exceptional writers (though I do think Volume 6 and 7 to a lesser extent show improvement but there's no denying that RWBY's start was very rockily written) but without them Monty would have floundered with trying to design the setting.
 

Fougaro

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Just fucking admit Miles (...) was pulling from his experience dating the VA for Blake(...)
My desire to know more intensifies. Since I'm working on an updated op that will include a brief summary of the cast, I'd like to learn about as much behind the scenes drama and other Homer sexual faggotry.
 

Pixy Misa

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Though, there is something I do think Monty did wrong with his vision.

He was really creating an action "anime", akin to something like Dragon Ball Z, that was trying really hard to be a final fantasy RPG.

There's nothing wrong with trying to make an "anime" that's mostly for action. And he really should've just stuck to that instead of trying to be something it wasn't. Note that the very first thing RWBY ever did was brag how deep and mysterious their villains were and then some speeches about human nature?

Don't get me wrong, like others have pointed out, making RWBY deep, and complex was doable with competent writers, but if that was out of their reach, they should've been humble enough to admit it and just focus on what they did well.

That's a huge reason "the plot" took a huge nosedive once they tried to get serious, because, really the Salem/relics/maidens plot isn't as interesting as they think it is.
 

Fougaro

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Though, there is something I do think Monty did wrong with his vision.

He was really creating an action "anime", akin to something like Dragon Ball Z, that was trying really hard to be a final fantasy RPG.

There's nothing wrong with trying to make an "anime" that's mostly for action. And he really should've just stuck to that instead of trying to be something it wasn't. Note that the very first thing RWBY ever did was brag how deep and mysterious their villains were and then some speeches about human nature?

Don't get me wrong, like others have pointed out, making RWBY deep, and complex was doable with competent writers, but if that was out of their reach, they should've been humble enough to admit it and just focus on what they did well.

That's a huge reason "the plot" took a huge nosedive once they tried to get serious, because, really the Salem/relics/maidens plot isn't as interesting as they think it is.
As I said more or less a few pages ago, Monty was the kind of weeb who mistook anime for a genre instead of seeing it as a medium, henceforth he tried to make it as "anime" as possible. When you think about it, RWBY is, especially in its current form, a high budget production of a shitty weeb webcomic akin to Megatokyo.
 

HumanHive

Human behavior is exceptional behavior.
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As I said more or less a few pages ago, Monty was the kind of weeb who mistook anime for a genre instead of seeing it as a medium, henceforth he tried to make it as "anime" as possible. When you think about it, RWBY is, especially in its current form, a high budget production of a shitty weeb webcomic akin to Megatokyo.
Anime is like spaghetti westerns. Made by a certain group, for a certain group. If Italians ain't making the western, it ain't spaghetti; same with anime. A "medium" would be film, tv, video games, comics, etc. Which is not what defines anime.

I will never understand how this is controversial.
 

Sayon

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Part of the issue with Adam is that even if he wasn't meant to be an abusive ex he was still a faunus. And back then the plot tried too hard to pull "ahhh look hard the faunus have it." If you're someone who the show failed to get invested in the faunus' social justice warfare then I doubt Adam would be anything special. It's not helped by how there's this narrative bubble that all of White Fang/Faunus are dumped in where they're only loosely connected to what the rest of RWBY is doing.
 
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Sayon

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There's nowhere else to go from here if they want Salem to be a credible villain. RWBY needs to lose hard (killings, seeing Mantle and/or Atlas torched). And once it's all over either they retreat into the horizon with the mass destruction on their memory or are dead/locked away for good.
 

Jewelsmakerguy

Domo Arigato
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There's nowhere else to go from here if they want Salem to be a credible villain. RWBY needs to lose hard (killings, seeing Mantle and/or Atlas torched). And once it's all over either they retreat into the horizon with the mass destruction on their memory or are dead/locked away for good.
I can totally Salem attempt a "Glass them all" aproach, maybe betray her own lackies in the process (because why not at this point?), see the hunts teams become fugitives across all of mantle with everyone wanting their heads. Maybe get a permanent death of one of the main teens in the process as well.

But we all know they're going to botch up at least one of these concepts somehow.
 

Xenomorphs Are Cute

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No kidding? What other shit has she done?
These are pretty milquetoast & Barbara, while a massive bitch, is not the worst person of all time who's also an english VA (That crown of shame is still on Amanda Winn Lee's head & it'll stay for a while) & others in just Rooster Teeth itself do worse, but out of all 4 RWBY actors, Barbara's the worst, followed by Arryn (aka Brunette Barbara)

Can't take criticism:
Takes the Patrick Soderland's Battlefield V approach when people remotely criticize RWBY or Yang or just her as a person in general. Blocks people on people calling her out, such as here. You can check "Barbara Dunkelman block" on YT to see other people talking about it.


You'll find a lot of simps in the way:

While it's known that nobody in Rooster Teeth can take criticism, they also (to a certainly low extent) try to keep their spergy mouths shut. Barbara doesn't even do that, she buries herself & the show deeper everytime someone calls her out.

An example: https://youtu.be/XthMuPsaS_c

Karma Houdini:
She's also known to play Karma Houdini everytime on controversies, there was one time where she sent her simpy fans & RT staff on Piers Morgan for a simple typo. She neither called them off, nor apologized. Instead, she got hailed as a hero by people.

There's an imgur post about it which doesn't work anymore, but just google "Piers Morgan Barabara Dunkelman"

Edit:
Thanks Fougaro: https://youtu.be/28rqWUFjBj8

Being a bad partner:
Her ex Aaron broke up with her due to being controlling & hot-headed. It also makes you realize how Adam suddenly became the same & why some say that VAs have more control of RWBY most of the time than writers.

Thinks she's some big shit:
6 years ago from now, she basically bitched about how non-celebs (basically normal people) with low followers shouldn't have a twitter just because they're not celebs & have a low follower count.

In other words, it's bascially the low follower ad-hominem used by twitter people who can't handle arguments, alongside anime pfp, pronouns in bio, etc.

But in her case, she just wants them to not exist alltogether.

 
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