Sperg about comic books here -

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King Koalemos

kiwifarms.net
I find it really weird how mutants in Marvel have some of the most broken characters in comics yet are still treated as the completely overwhelmed humanity.

we forgot about Nate Grey for almost a decade, and then he shows up in like 2018-19 for a mutant thing before dying.

i think they've always tried to write the most powerful characters as being mentally struggling in some way in order to provide a weakness.

(they brought back the sentry in like 2018, then killed him in 2020)
 

Xolanite

Leoneil is not my son.
kiwifarms.net
I enjoyed reading the first issue of Marvel's the Runaways. Kids going against their supervillain parents was a cool concept for me. Too bad I can't be arsed to read further.
 

Mississippi Motorboater

Untouchable Busty Southern Belle
kiwifarms.net
I'm reading all of X-Men for the first time, and I've already decided that I'm going to stop at Second Coming.

Everything after that sounds like utter ball cancer, Hickman's run very much included.
 

King Koalemos

kiwifarms.net
I enjoyed reading the first issue of Marvel's the Runaways. Kids going against their supervillain parents was a cool concept for me. Too bad I can't be arsed to read further.
its good as long as Vaughn writes it.
I'm reading all of X-Men for the first time, and I've already decided that I'm going to stop at Second Coming.

Everything after that sounds like utter ball cancer, Hickman's run very much included.
X-Men is a giant clusterfuck that you kinda only read after you get attached to the series.
 

Registration

kiwifarms.net
I am growing in favor to batman 89, this was the best issue so far. Bruce is such a exceptional individual, I love it. Wouldn't be surprised if they eventually decide in making an animated movie out of it.
 

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Tor Lugosi

The Holy One of Israel
kiwifarms.net
I'm reading all of X-Men for the first time, and I've already decided that I'm going to stop at Second Coming.

Everything after that sounds like utter ball cancer, Hickman's run very much included.
I've been doing the same and that's pretty much where I planned on ending it, too. I might go a little further to finish up Mike Carey's stuff but I think Second Coming is the real climax of his run, so I may end up just stopping there as well.
 

Registration

kiwifarms.net
He's the Irish Guy who wrote Preacher, right? I never really liked him, I think he also write Fury Max and I've read stuff by Japanese War Otaku that are better about a lot of aspects of war. He's one of those guys who hates the genre and a lot of people love his nihilism because he'll explore some ideas. Same with the Ellis guy, I hope I didn't mix them up. I know that one of them is responsible for the current crop of writers by doing quid pro quos on his blog. I don't really like Anglo Writers that much, they seem to have a stick up their asses and can't help, but write thinly veiled British politics polemics and comment terribly on American politics. Moore was guilty of this, by far. Miracle Man which besides some gore is fairly boring is just him being angry about Thatcher, it's really pathetic. Moore is really only as good as the artist he was partnered with.

I like Jap shit more because they understand that visual medium means visual medium. The sights gags in Manga are to communicate something, the character design as well. Western comics are allergic to speed lines to convey motion, it's why artists used capes and scarves. A lot of those things got tossed out the window, even the idea of why superheroes are heroes. Abusing your gifts was something heroes didn't really do, Peter Parker was a hero because he realized that he has to use his powers with responsibility, his issue was that he did it to the point where he had to many responsibilities and his life would fall apart. He was always a power fantasy, but the inherent moral was a positive message for young men. Even DBZ has the idea that you can constantly surpass your limitations, modern comics are diseased in that they don't really have a moral.
I love Ennis, not for his most famous stories but for a few of it that I really fucking love. Rover Red Charlie for example, about dogs in the post apocalyptic world and the recent Punisher MAX stories, the ending of the Punisher MAX: The Platoon still is vivid in my memory, even for someone who now kinda despises capeshit. How he humanizes Frank in ways that you know that there is something wrong with him but still there is a human connection.

And the madman went a few years later and gave us Punisher The Soviet. I don't think I will ever see an american writing a russian character so good as he did with the Valery. And the ultra violence in the comic is fucking top notch quality.
 

horrorfan89

I do love a good joke!
kiwifarms.net
There are so many fags and lesbos in today's superhero periodicals that one can only draw the conclusion that super powers turn you gay. They can also alter your DNA in the drop of a hat, so that one second you're white, the next you're a nigger.
they say a lot of the people who all those super edgy darker more violent hero comics in the 90's did so because they were tired of the classic archtype of the superhero by then, You know the dashing good looking boy scout who can do no wrong but is all mild mannered and humble in their secret identity? They say it's why 90s comics were the way they were. With things like Marshal Law, Judge Dredd (gettting somewhat popular over here in the us) the punisher, and just everything from the jean phillipe batman to Hal Jordan going apeshit.


I wonder if in the future, if there ever is a shift in the culture wars, and people get so fed up with all this "representation matters" crap. That we'll see more creators start to drop ALL these bs stories and changes and do so in ways that could make the dark age of comics blush. Imagine all of the new guardians everyone hated (snowflake, safespace, that one who controlled the intern or whatever) getting killed off by their replacements, or jon kent having his own little "death of superman" that they try to pass off as some token gesture to raise awareness for violence against lqbtqrstuvwxyz people.


Well, I can only dream.
 

Tepes Thot

kiwifarms.net
I wonder how whole Jon thing will turn out years later. There are lots of resources allocated to him and there are obvious interest groups behind his push, but its all done in such a shit way that I wonder if he won't be retconned out of existence at some point.
My hope is one day all of this is retconned into its own weird non-canon universe. It’s just embarrassing, and would be easy to forget it.
 

jspit2.0

kiwifarms.net
I've been using this, though largely ignoring 'modern' stories that got inserted into the older stuff (which is to say, I mostly skipped the 'part one' list.)

I asked as it gets pretty harry from the 80s forward. The list appears very comprehensive.

For jumping off point, I think there's a couple of good ones pre-second coming.

1. It doesn't ever really get better than OG Claremont '91 and X-men #3 is a nice coda.

The post Claremont '91 books in my head canon are apocrypha. They make confusing retcons, undermine Claremont's work. To the point that it cheapens prior deaths and story arcs. The sole redeeming quality of the X-books in the 90s is the art. Even ignoring the Image guys. Terry Dodson, Ian Churchill, Jeff Matsuda. Tons of beautiful comics, that sadly are tied down to an ever weakening story thread.

2. Claremont came back in Revolution after a decade away and attempted to put the franchise back on track. It's a bit of a miss, but X-men #109 is the second, perfect jump off issue. None of the Godawful nihilism and deep throated contempt that becomes the norm after Morrison.

3. If you insist on Morrison's run, you can read it and rest at X-men 154. It's a fitting reinvention/deconstruction of Claremont's thesis and nothing that comes after 154 will be half as respectful.
 

Tor Lugosi

The Holy One of Israel
kiwifarms.net
From what I remember reading back when I was younger, Eve of Destruction is pretty much the end of 'classic' X-Men, with X-Men Forever published alongside it as an attempt to finally resolve the trillion plot threads from the '80s and '90s and allow new writers to come in on a clean slate.
 

Mississippi Motorboater

Untouchable Busty Southern Belle
kiwifarms.net
X-Men is a giant clusterfuck that you kinda only read after you get attached to the series.
I'm just here for the characters and the soapy drama/dynamics between them. I don't really give a fuck about the continuity or high-concept aspects like "muh mutantphobia" or all the "Shiar Empire/Multiple Edgy Timelines" shit.

I wanna see characters I like fighting cool shit and engaging in cheesetacular but compelling melodrama.

From what I've read so far, the Claremont/Byrne stuff seems to be the creative peak of those desired elements.

I've been doing the same and that's pretty much where I planned on ending it, too. I might go a little further to finish up Mike Carey's stuff but I think Second Coming is the real climax of his run, so I may end up just stopping there as well.
I read synopsis of stuff like Schism, AvX, and Death of X, and nearly vomited in my mouth.

The only post Second Coming things I might read is Mr. and Mrs. X (mostly because the wedding stuff between Gambit and Rogue looks cute), and whatever that storyline with the X-Men fighting vampires is called....mostly out of morbid curiosity.

For the first time? With you name and avatar? :lol:
Believe it or not, yes. I had no prior experience with X-Men growing up (outside of the hot sweaty clusterfuck that is the Fox movies), and around the time Dark Phoenix was coming out--which I didn't see--I decided to get a taste of what the Dark Phoenix Saga by trying out the 90's X-Men cartoon I'd been neglecting for years. That ended up becoming my crack, and I decided to watch all the cartoons, all of which became the window to my obsession with the characters (and one in particular). So with Marvel movies getting shittier, and with my gradual acclamation to reading comics with older art and dialogue, I decided to take the plunge and read a condensed, vertical slice of X-Men stuff as my one and only jaunt into capeshit.

And yes, Rogue pretty much embodies everything I like in my comics. She's not some uber-complex character--she's just a cool girl with a gorgeous design, that beats the fuck out of villains and has a cheeky attitude. She feels like a rare Western equivalent to the kind of fun that Japanese creators have with their tough-but-sexy heroines.

The kind of characters we really don't get anymore.

Do you have a reading guide?
Yeah. Used this chart as a jumping off point, and Crushing Krisis for where I'm at now.

I have a cardinal rule when it comes to starting any long-running, neverending shitstorm like superhero comics: I don't start it until I've determined exactly where I'm going to stop reading.

If I don't have a spot where I can disembark, I'm not reading it.

1. It doesn't ever really get better than OG Claremont '91 and X-men #3 is a nice coda.

The post Claremont '91 books in my head canon are apocrypha. They make confusing retcons, undermine Claremont's work. To the point that it cheapens prior deaths and story arcs. The sole redeeming quality of the X-books in the 90s is the art. Even ignoring the Image guys. Terry Dodson, Ian Churchill, Jeff Matsuda. Tons of beautiful comics, that sadly are tied down to an ever weakening story thread.
Speaking as a new reader, I concur that the OG Claremont/Byrne stuff is where all the good shit is. That seems to be the unanimous assessment of X-Spergs the world over, and for good reason: that's when the drama was the best, the characters were at their peak, and the story arcs felt consequential. Not just the no-brainers like Dark Phoenix or Days of Future Past, but even later stuff like Mutant Massacre, Fall of the Mutants, and Inferno. Sure, you had some goofy shit like the deafening BDSM undertones, Claremont's Storm Worship, and the Weeb levels of Japanese shit with Wolverine, but there were enough redeeming qualities elsewhere in the writing to help ignore it. Everything still felt impactful and significant in how it affected the characters.

I think that's my major problem with the 90's era: it has a cool aesthetic, but it feels like anime filler. You have these giant fights with throwaway villains like Trevor Fitzroy, Shinobi Shaw, Onslaught and Stryfe, and there's very little compelling drama or character interactions. There's a lot of dry speeches and giant splash pages, and nothing the fuck else.

The only two parts of the 90's hailstorm of art and fight scenes that I can even remember are Fatal Attractions and Age of Apocalypse. I literally don't remember anything else that happened.

None of the Godawful nihilism and deep throated contempt that becomes the norm after Morrison.
Not gonna lie, I'm enduring Morrison's run right now, and it's making me want to shove a power drill into my mouth. I don't know why people keep recommending this run to new readers--the art is shit, the characters have zero agency outside of carrying out boring high-concept nonsense and being pretentious mouthpieces for a postmodern hipster garbage, the costumes are utter ass, and no one from Jean Grey or Cyclops or Magneto is acting like themselves. Plus, from what I'm told, half of this shit is retconned in Whedon's run anyway (which I'm not looking forward to reading either).

I literally have to duck back to Claremont's X-Treme X-Men issues to retain my sanity. His stuff around this time maybe dated and schlocky (I mean, there's literally a diamond heist, a mutant gang war, and a fucking Mutant Spaniard Nobleman as a recurring antagonist), but at least I'm having some modicum of fun while reading it.

Plus, Storm, Rogue and Sage are drawn nice and pretty, in spankin' red and black uniforms, so there's something nice to look at. Which is more than I can say for Frank Quietly's butt-ugly melting wax characters.
 

King Koalemos

kiwifarms.net
@Mississippi Motorboater

Storm/Rogue/Sage are still drawn nicely. X-Men's been in a constant state of melodrama in the 21st century, and it's been kinda amusing watching how so much of the shitshow was just a sort of "slow" escalation of things.

that and the whole Hope Summers saga was really fun to read, but then AvX wasn't quite the best payoff.


Think you might enjoy Hickman's leadup to Secret Wars if you like melodrama. It's packed with quite a bit of the melodramatic interaction between the heroes, as the years between AvX and Secret Wars leads to cracks forming everywhere and more MELODRAMA and dynamics. I kinda wish they went a little more in-depth on "anti-heroic Cyclops" because that was an extremely intriguing idea. Hell the entire thing with Inhumans vs X-Men has a nice but predictable twist in dynamics (and a lotta Emma Frost fun)

  • Rogue's good yeah. She's married to Gambit now, funny enough. I think Rogue/Storm are probably the two X-heroines I generally have any interest in.

    I mean, Jean Grey's fun but overstayed her welcome and they only brought her back just for shenanigans again.

  • Emma Frost is a good anti-hero when she's being utilized right, but her existence was best when she was with Scott in the 00s.

  • Kitty Pryde's great, but I always forget she's an adult now. These days she's just kinda odd and they wrote her as dumping Colossus at the wedding altar? I dunno bout that one chief.

  • Rachel Grey's limited outside of very specific things. Kinda wish they actually did something with her in the greater Marvel Universe. I did enjoy her though.

  • X-23 is fun and I do think her "Wolverine" series was fairly decent. It's just that she needs more character focus and a good writer.

  • Polaris is interesting, wish they let Havok and Iceman not get mentally fucked over so we could still have that classic love triangle.

  • Dani Moonstar shows up for small things and leaves. So does Karma and Magma. I think the only New Mutants era X-Heroines that do anything are Wolfsbane and Boom=Boom. (Whatever happened to Skids? )
  • M is interesting but they're probably rotating all the X books with miniseries attachments for Hickman's grand plan.
I'm interested in what Hickman's doing because I really want to know what the fuck Karima Shapandar (Omega Sentinel) has been doing. Like dude, we haven't seen her in quite a damn long time and she was sort of an "un-easy ally" in her initial arcs and whatnot. With all the tech on the planet, I"m sure they could just negotiate a major favor from Stark or Richards to overwrite or undo her sentinel directive.

Also, and I'm only saying this because it's going to feel like 20/20 hindsight if it does happen,

How do you all think they're going to kill Jean Grey next time?

I mean, come on. Every time she's died it's been as part of a seminal run. Claremont. Morrison.

I'm predicting that we're finally gonna get some fucked up addition to the mangled Hope Summers plot in the end of Krakoa Era.
 
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